Issue 527: Modelling provenance of Intangible Heritage

ID: 
527
Starting Date: 
2021-02-23
Working Group: 
3
Status: 
Open
Background: 

Posted by Martin on 23/02/2021

Massoomeh Niknia from Kharazmi University| Tehran, Iran brought this to my attention:

"I have a list of Iranian Intangible cultural heritage works (E71) and each of them has an origin from one or more than one province (E53) of Iran. for example "Radif of Iranian music" belongs to a province which is called "Khorasan". 

I would like to know how can I make a relationship between the works ( Iranian Intangible cultural heritage) to their origins. I suppose I need to show their relations by making an special activity (like belonging, influencing, etc.) but unfortunately I couldn't find such a property in the Model. "

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radif_(music) and https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/radif-of-iranian-music-00279 .

I think that we have o consider a combination of the LRM concept of Work and modelling collective behavior. It may reach the limits of what we can do with modeling the past by identifiable individuals. It may also be regarded as an E55 Type? It should be connected to particular performance modelling, particular artists, may be even particular instruments.

Current Proposal: 

Posted by Robert Sanderson on 25/02/2021

Very interesting!

From the wikipedia article, the Radif is:
    a collection of old melodies that have been handed down by the masters to the students through the generations

Which is very interesting if taken literally as it requires *two* classes we don't have -- a collection class for non-physical things [dare I say in this context that yes I am banging that drum?] and a class for a Melody to parallel Visual and Linguistic sub-classes of Information Object.  Once there is a set of melodies, this can be the specific object of the activities where the tradition is passed on.

I wonder about the use of Type without further properties or activities, as it's currently impossible to relate a concept to other classes.  An example which came up here recently is the precoordinated headings with temporal, personal and geographic facets ... for example "History (E55 Type) of 15th Century (E4 Period) France (E53 Place)". Clearly History of 15th Century France is a Type, but one that should be able to be related to the Period and Place.

Posted by Pierre Choffe on 26/02/2021

We considered this interesting question of context and origin in the frame of the Doremus project. For example, we describe the creation of Henry Purcell's Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary, Z. 860 as an Expression Creation that occurred in the historical context of the death of Queen Mary II. The Expression itself has a historical context of Queen Mary funeral and a religious context of Anglicism.

Posted by Pierre Choffe on 26/02/2021

Dear Martin, dear all,

We considered this interesting question of context and origin in the frame of the Doremus project. For example, we describe the creation of Henry Purcell's Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary, Z. 860 as an Expression Creation that occurred in the historical context of the death of Queen Mary II. The Expression itself has a historical context of Queen Mary funeral and a religious context of Anglicism.

 

Post by Martin Doerr (15 June 2021)

Dear All

Here a few thoughts about issue 527, Modelling Provenance of Intangible Heritage.

We may define "intangible heritage" as living human memories:

A)    Memories and oral traditions about events, things, people

These can be treated as propositional objects.

The question of where these traditions originate is more complex. It may be associated with Groups, and would need a specific activity of transferring such knowledge, as well as creation. Paths of tradition may be known. Content variants pose another challenge, which may need a core-variant relation, or a variant set?

B) More varied will be myths, fairy tales and other oral fiction, and mixtures of fiction and history. There may or may not be a historical origin, as with the Odyssey and Iliad. We will need a policy how to talk about unknown origins, and evidence of variant consolidation.

Very different are

C) Procedural knowledge and traditions (techniques, dance, music, rituals)

Music in particular will include musical motives, a sort of "symbolic object", and again core-variant relation, or a variant set.

Groups as originators may work, but often the tradition also appears in areas where they live without differentiating a different group.

May be CRMsoc could provide a lighter construct of the social collectives involved and where they have acted?

All the best,

Martin

Post by Daria Hook (16 June 2021) 

Any system should have common basis.
Intangible heritage has one source - human activity, and appears as a result of it (reflections: myths, legends, oral heritage...) or in process (dances and songs, food). If you have doubts, look the Shumerian tablets. All is already described there.

With kind regards,
Daria Hookk

Post by Martin Doerr (16 June 2021) 

I fully agree! My question was about the details, the complexity of describing collectivity, at the level of multiple actions and interactions, coherent or similar actions of coherent groups, or incoherent sets of people, observing  the Troian War and consolidating stories from it...

All the best,