Issue 536: Properties for assigning dimensions to places and temporal entities

Starting Date: 
Working Group: 

In the 49th CIDOC CRM and 42nd FRBR CRM sig meeting (virtual), given the decision to reduce the range of P39 measured from E1 CRM Entity to E18 Physical Thing (issue 511), the SIG decided to start a new issue where to discuss the introduction of properties for assigning dimensions to places and temporal entitites (now excluded by P39). Proposed properties are: 

  • Pxx has dimension [D: E53 Place, R: E54 Dimension] 
  • Pxx has dimension [D: E2 Temporal Entity, R: E54 Dimension]

Whether they will be placed in CIDOC CRM or another family model (f.i. CRMgeo or CRMsci) should also be part of the discussion. 

HW: MD, RS, MaDo to formulate the definitions and examples. 

March, 2021

Post by Rob -June 8, 2021

I propose to defer the discussion of Issue 536 until after #531 and #537 have been resolved, on the grounds that the changes from those issues will affect the decision about any new properties for shortcutting from an observable entity (or place) to a dimension.

In particular, if all observable things can have dimensions, then the existing has_dimension could simply change its range to Observable Entity. As (currently) Places are not observable, they would need a new property, following the "mathematically calculated" dimension definition from Martin.


Post by Martin (9 May 2022)

Dear All,

Please find my homework (thoughts) for issue 536 (place dimensions) under:


In the 53rd CIDOC CRM & 46th FRBRoo SIG meeting, MD walked the Sig through the issue and proposed to only define a Pxxx has dimension [D: E53 Place, R: E54 Dimension] bearing in mind that the instance of E53 Place is an approximation of a real place. The definition must express that the dimension is derived from the mathematical substance of places.  

Nb. Distances between features that do not coexist in time, or did not exist at the time of determining the distance, and other geometric “multi-place” properties are mathematical constructs. 


  • Before deciding with Pxx has dimension for places, we should see how places and distances btw them are defined in the OGC standards, which should be interfaced by CRMbase and CRMgeo. 
  • Similarly, Spacetime Volumes need a mathematical dimension, not an observable one.
  • Time-spans do have only one kind of dimension: the duration, which already exists in the model –see properties of E52 Time-Span.

Proceed as proposed, GH to check OGC for the definition of places/distances and produce a HW for the next meeting. DH to collaborate. 
The STVs can be dealt with after Place has been determined. 
HW: GH & DH.


May 2022

Reference to Issues: